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Stephanie Liu Hey, what's up, you guys? It's Stephanie Liu and I've got an amazing show for you today. We have a new episode on Lights Camera Live. We're talking about Copy Confidence.
And, I have one of the most amazing human beings on the planet for you. It's Marisa Corcoran, and she's got this amazing fan base. These are people that know how to write copy, and she's spilling all the beans for you today.
Yeah, you. So grab your coffee - I've got my Han Solo. Grab your notebooks, because this is gonna be a ton of fun.
Now, before I introduce you to her, let's go ahead and give you a little tidbit about just how simply amazing she is.
So, when it comes to Marisa, which by the way I met through Mary Fein Brandt - So shout out to Mary Fein Brandt.
Marisa Corcoran helps coaches and creatives discover what to say and how to say it magnetically to attract your dream client online.
In addition to writing the words that get landing pages converting as 60% or even higher, she crafts personality-filled emails. She helps coaches and creatives craft their uncopyable message inside her six-month mastermind.
She's absolutely amazing and you definitely - definitely - want to be here for this. She brings together 20 leading copywriters, business coaches and online strategists in her upcoming Copy Chat Masterclass series, which you absolutely have to be a part of. So having said that, let me go ahead and switch the screen. Let's go ahead and see if she is ready for this - if she's ready for all of you.
Hey, Marisa. How are you?
Marisa Corcoran I'm good. How are you? Thank you so much for having me here. This is so much fun.
Stephanie Liu Of course! You're in Atlanta, is that right?
Marisa Corcoran I am. I'm in Atlanta where it's, it’s -
We have some sun today, which is nice. I moved here because I wanted like, permanent sun.
Stephanie Liu Oh, I could relate to that.
Marisa Corcoran I grew up in upstate New York. So I was ready to leave permanently - and I’ve lived 10 years in New York City. So I said, that's it. I'm ditching winter permanently.
Stephanie Liu You can do that? You can opt out of winter?
Marisa Corcoran Yeah. You can. Everyone you can opt out of winter. I've done it. I've done it. I'm doing it currently.
Stephanie Liu She's living proof everyone. So I'm based here in beautiful sunny San Diego, and it's so wonderful to see Mary Rose, who is tuning in. She says that she is so ready to learn even more. Let me see it. Let me put her comment on screen:
So ready to learn even more. I always write as if I'm speaking face to face, but I know I can always improve. Thank you for doing this one.
She can't wait.
Yeah, you know, it's so interesting because I feel like most people that I meet -
We're marketers, we're social media marketers and we're all about conversations and building those relationships. And yet, when it comes to sitting down in front of a keyboard, we're like, Where did my brain go?
Marisa Corcoran Totally, totally.
And I think, what happens is that we forget that you have so much - you have so much power at your fingertips to be able to connect with people in your writing. And if you're having a conversation, and I know in the comment you put about really making sure that it feels like you're speaking to one person.
You know, a lot of times we think, Oh, how do I feel like I have to speak to everyone and like, make it as if you're writing the email or the social media post, whatever it is, to a friend.
Stephanie Liu I love that. That is the best advice and shoutout to Mike Allton. He says, I can't wait to geek out with a fellow writer.
Yes, he's a big fan of the show. So thank you, Mike, so much for hanging out.
Precy, who's actually in the Philippines. It's one AM on her side of the world. She can't sleep. So she's like, I'm going to be here for this.
Marisa Corcoran So, oh, I love that.
Stephanie Liu Marisa, they are all here for you. How does that feel?
Marisa Corcoran It's awesome. I said -
I was saying to my friends and my colleagues -
I said, Stephanie's promo, like the way that she's doing the show - I said I feel like I'm a celebrity, right?
Stephanie Liu You are a celebrity. That's what happens, right? That's what happens when you show up on Lights Camera Live.
Everyone, please give her a warm welcome. Give us some thumbs up. Give some likes. Go ahead and share this with anyone in your community that has been tapping you for ideas, like, Hey, can you help me brainstorm a title, a headline or how does this sound?
Because this episode is for you guys. I pulled her out of her amazing, super busy schedule, just so that she could spend this time with you.
So Marisa, you have this amazing, amazing background when it comes to how you went into copywriting. Can you tell us a little bit more about that? How did you wake up one day like, Hey, you know what? I'm gonna write powerful magnetic copy.
Marisa Corcoran Yeah, it's a good question. So I was originally an actor. I got my MFA in Acting from Harvard University. And, when you are an actor, when you're finishing your program, you do what's called a showcase. You'll do one in multiple cities, sometimes LA, New York, and you perform a monologue or a scene for agents. And then, if they want to see you, they will call you and you'll have a meeting. It's the kind of customary that you would send them a really nice thank you note afterwards.
So I started helping my friends in my class. I write really great, thank you notes that were getting great responses, because in the acting world, you know, we all want to get the job.
So casting directors, agents, they can kind of smell desperation like, we have to get the job, right? So, I encouraged my friends.
How can you write this and treat that person as a human? What else did you talk about that had nothing to do with acting? Do you both like dogs? Did you talk about the weather? Was there a funny joke that, you know, you told and they laughed? Like, how can you make that connection with them personable?
And I started to feel they were really getting great responses. So I went, I went back to New York. By now, I had an agent. Thanks to my own great thank you note. I couldn't go back to my old gigs of waiting tables or nanny.
I needed to do something where I had my own schedule. So a friend of mine said, Hey, you could write for online, like the online world. And I was like, Oh, what? Okay, sure.
So I kind of got thrown into it. And my first client said, Can you write a JV packet for me?
And I was like, Sure, will you just send me ones that you like? So I kind of know what you're going for.
And that's how I learned that a JV packet was a joint venture. I was essentially writing an affiliate packet and it just took off from there. I found that I loved helping people write really connected, personality-driven copy, more than I liked being an actor.
So, I ditched acting and you know, created my business. So for a while, I was doing both of them and then about two years ago, I cut the other one out and started my business really full out as a copy expert and copy coach and created The Copy Chat.
Stephanie Liu Oh, I love that. That is such an interesting journey. I feel like so for some of us, like even me as a live streamer -
I never went to school for videography or cinematography. I went to school for Psychology to really understand how the mind works, how to motivate people, and all that good stuff. Now, it's like 10 years later and they’re like, What? You're in front of the camera? That's insane!
Marisa Corcoran So, it’s one of the things I love when you’re on The Copy Chat -
I felt like all of that psychology, what you had done, paid off because the way you described - showing up on camera, being powerful, and walking people through - the system was so clear.
Yeah, and I'm sure that that has so much to do with what you your background - what you learned.
Stephanie Liu Yeah, and even when you were just talking about how when you're writing that thank you letter to the directors, you would recall a moment where you had an inside joke or something that you talked about that really brought out - like an emotion - because I come from an NLP background.
And, we talked a lot about anchoring, like when you want to anchor that emotion to a specific moment, that way, you become top-of-mind, tip-of-tongue. You're doing it in writing, which I thought was like, Oh, brilliant!
Marisa Corcoran Yeah, the same, and I realized that everything that makes you a really great leading lady, or you know, an actor on stage is the same things that apply to your copy and your message.
So, I just started on how I can apply - kind of an actor's guide to copy -
Like, how can I? And, this is what I help my students in the Copy Confident Society has turned you into the leading lady for your for your business.
Stephanie Liu Turn you into leading lady of your business. Okay, that is steal-worthy right there. I'm a huge fan when it comes to alliteration. Of course, Lights Camera Live.
Yes, the leading lady of your business. Oh, absolutely love that.
Marisa Corcoran Yeah, kind of the whole goal is how can we create this uncopyable message that is so unique to you. In that way, you think of, you know, really, actors or performers that are so distinct. You know, if you think about someone like say, like Lady Gaga - totally uncopyable.
How do we create a message that that's uncopyable and then apply it to your website words, your emails, everything.
Stephanie Liu Love it. Yeah. So shoutout to Chad who's saying that he's loves some me time on stage at the theater. So, we've got some theater heads in here. I absolutely love that.
Marisa Corcoran I love it. I talked theater a ton to explain concepts of my students. So, it's great if someone's like, I know what you're talking about.
Stephanie Liu And then Precy, who is there in the Philippines 1 AM at her time. She says, I love writing. I was a writer before becoming a social media manager. I want to learn new tips today.
Marisa Corcoran Perfect.
Stephanie Liu And then, one more from Chad. He says, I'm no lady, but that is awesome.
Marisa Corcoran Yes, that's also true. So, I have a lot of - I have like a guy crew that kind of follows me and loves my stuff even though, you know, I speak kind of, to the leading lady feel, but I find that it totally applies to being a leading man, too.
Stephanie Liu Okay, good.
Marisa Corcoran Be the Hugh Jackman of your business.
Stephanie Liu Oh, Hugh Jackman! I love The Greatest Showman.
Marisa Corcoran I know, yeah. Who doesn't? He’s so nice, too.
Stephanie Liu Yeah. See? She just did an anchor on me ‘cause, I love The Greatest Showman, and just by her saying his name, like brought some love and light into today's show.
All right, so, if you guys are just tuning in, we are talking to Marisa Corcoran, who is the founder of the Copy Confident Society, and she's spilling all her beans about how to make copy that magnetically attracts your dream client. Because not only that, you guys, she's been helping her clients get conversions on landing pages 60% above or higher.
Like, what?! That's insane. That's insane!
So let's talk about why it's important for every single business owner to master the art of copywriting. What's your take on that?
Marisa Corcoran Yeah, I think I described copy as one of the three business basic needs. So, if we think about it like this, you need an audience of people to speak to. You need to tap into your ideal clients, readers, fans. And so, you need to find a system that works for you to consistently attract them. And, we call that lead generation. So that's one of the business's basic needs.
And then, the second one is you need to find a way to speak to them, sell to them, enroll them in your vision and the transformation that you provide, you know, without sounding like a used car salesman that feels really connected, and that's sales.
And then, three, is how are you able to do the other two, if you don't have a specific uncopyable message and copy that supports it? Which is why, copy is one of those business basic needs.
Which is why I always feel bad if somebody, you know -
And, a lot of times what happens with copy is that you join up a mastermind or coaching group or a business coaching group, and then copies, like in a module somewhere - like a bonus model, like in the ethers of kajabi.
It really needs to be - you can't really do -
I'm sure you could find a way, but the other two, the other two business basic needs, are going to be a lot easier if you pay attention and take some time to really create that unique message for yourself.
And the other thing I will say too, Stephanie is: Copy is like water for your business. You don't go a day without it - with the email that you write. Right now, what we're doing is still copy - we're just - it's just speaking.
But, you have to come up with the headlines, or you're going to turn this into a blog. And so, you really can't get away as the other trends kind of come and go. Copy is like, you know, a classic - like a black leather jacket.
Stephanie Liu You know, everything that you say -
And again, I'm tying this back to the NLP piece of it. Because, the way that people learn or the way that they communicate is usually they use like visual predicates, auditory kinesthetic or auditory digital, and you hit on every single one of them.
I love how you use metaphors and similes, because some people forget about that. Like, we all learned that in school, you know, but then they just fall back on the ‘Click Here To Register’ and it's like -
Copy is like a classic black leather jacket.
Yeah, true. Anna, in the comments, she's like, Boom, yeah!
See? I guess I knew you guys were absolutely going to love this. So, if you haven't done it already, get your notebooks, because you are getting some steal-worthy tips, get out that swipe file, start jotting it down, because we're just going to tickle your brain with all these amazing ideas.
And if you have any questions, go ahead and drop them in the comments because I'll be here throwing them on the screen. That way, you could go ahead and get, you know, some quote unquote on a one-on-one time. All right.
So yeah. Here's another question for you. So Marisa, what are your three best tips for emails that actually get opened and responded to?
Marisa Corcoran Yeah. I love this question because I love talking about email. Because I think email is this awesome place of intimacy. It's like, you're - It's basically -
You're inviting people into your living room, you know, and this awesome opportunity to host this epic dinner party, and you get to share stories and connect. And so, that's why I think email is such a powerful way to practice and improve your copy, and have fun with it.
One of the first things that I always work on with my students is connecting with a story. Really, like storytelling is our oldest form of communication.
Stephanie Liu Absolutely.
Marisa Corcoran You know, so it's already ingrained in all of us, right? Theater, storytelling, it's already ingrained in people to remember something if there's a story attached to it.
So as opposed to diving into, well, right to ‘click over to the blog,’ or what we want them to do. First, you want to know, What is my intention here? What do I want them to do? What do I want them to do from this email?
And I'll just use an acting reference to kind of understand this. So when I was an actor, before you even start a scene, I had to tell our teacher - I had to tell Scott, what my intention was in the scene.
So, if you and me, Stephanie, were in a scene together, I had to say, I want Stephanie to admit that she's wrong. I want Stephanie to swallow a bitter pill. I want Stephanie to give me a hug.
I had to have a specific intention, or I couldn't start the scene. And it's the same with your email. So at the top of any Google Doc or Word, or wherever you're creating your emails, I always tell my students to write down, like: What is the intention? What do you want them to do at the end of this? Is it to click over to a blog? Is it to respond back to you? Engage? Is it to come over and watch the live? What's the goal? What's your desired outcome?
And, write it at the top.
And then, from there, you can think about - what is the story I could tell that connects me to get to that point without just diving in?
Like you were saying in the kind of like, ‘Click Here To Register,’ - that stuff doesn't connect. So, that's when you have to take off the second step is - You kind of have to take off your marketing hat and put on your creative hat. And you have to start thinking - everywhere you go is an opportunity for a story.
So, if you strike up a conversation with somebody at Target, you remember that you used to love Lemonheads as a kid - your favorite candy as a kid. You are having a conversation with a friend and you think - I could use that for an email!
It's starting to collect and I actually collect them. I will stop mid-conversation with people and be like, I'm listening to you. I just have to put this in the notes on my phone.
And then, my notes on my phone just has tons of story prompts.
Stephanie Liu I am the same way. I love that I'm not the only one that uses the Notes app on the phone, and sometimes -
Mike Allton is even watching and he's like one of my good friends. He's in my mastermind.
But sometimes, I'll have like a blog idea. I don't voice message him like, Hey, what do you think of this title? Does that you know that snappy does it like does it tug on your heartstrings like do you love it?
So, I love that. I'm not the only one, but the fact that you do it in the middle of the line at Target - that cracks me up.
Marisa Corcoran Yeah, I'll do it anywhere. If I see something, I think to myself, and I'll just quickly write it - write it down.
So for example, I love to tell this recent story. A friend of mine, who was a colleague of mine, we were talking about Christmas movies that we love. And this is back in December, and I told her - I said, You need to watch Christmas Chronicles on Netflix with Kurt Russell. It is so so good.
And she said, No, I don't do any new Christmas movies. The last Santa for me is Tim Allen.
I said, No, No. I said, you have to watch it. So she watched it. Two days later, I got a message from her that’s saying: Oh my gosh, I'm so obsessed. I love it so much.
And, it prompted me to just go in and do a little research on Christmas Chronicles, which is Kurt Russell's, like highest grossing movie of all time. And if on Netflix, it had 20 million views or something like that. And it's the first as they released it.
It's one of his biggest movies, you know, if not, his biggest movie of all time. And so, what if Kurt Russell had said, Oh, there's already been enough Santas?
What's my take on this? And so, I connected that story to -
You likely feel like, maybe your message has already been said by somebody else that's bigger than you has more followers than you.
So I found a way to connect it back to my audience. But by telling the Kurt Russell Santa Claus story, I got people to read and want to keep reading and read through this dialogue - through this conversation between me and Elizabeth - how I got her to watch the movie, how she watched it, and then, I connected it back to my audience.
As opposed to just diving in and saying, Don't you feel like it's already been said by everyone else, but you?
You know, they've likely probably heard that been said before.
Stephanie Liu That's true. And sometimes, there are lessons that you've learned, beliefs and things that you've learned in school - and it was probably communicated to you in one way. But there's someone else that comes in and is able to tell that story that just absolutely captivates you. And, for the first time ever, it just clicks. And, it's beautiful.
So don't ever feel like, you know, if someone's already done it. You know, Tim Allen's already done it. That doesn't mean that you can't do it either.
I have this - I have this joke with my friend, Molly Mahoney, who's also a live streamer.
Marisa Corcoran Yeah, I love Molly. Yeah. Okay, Molly's amazing. Molly's also a theater gal.
Stephanie Liu Yeah, she is! Okay, small world, small world. Totally love it.
So Molly and I were both speaking at an event once, and someone had come up to us. And like, you know: Don't you guys compete? You guys both talk about live video.
And I was like, Listen, it's kind of like this. You have your Filipino spaghetti. And you have your regular spaghetti.
So, there's like a different flavor to it - that you're going to get different personalities. If you want someone that wants to talk more about, like the performance and the theater stuff, she could go ahead and help you with that.
If you want something that's more like neuroscience, cognitive psychology, and all that brain stuff, then come over and talk to me because I'll go ahead and tie it back to that. But never, never, never, never feel like if it's already been done before, that you can't do it better because you can innovate. You could iterate, and you could make it your own.
And you guys, if you're loving this, I mean, give it up for Marisa because she has just thrown it down. And, I love seeing your comments, you guys.
Marisa Corcoran Yeah, I love that you said that, because I really believe that there's no such thing. And, I know it's going to sound people like, Oh, really? You mean this?
And I really do. I really don't think that there's any -
I don't think competition is real. I think there's really only collaboration. If you're willing to get specific about your message, which was the point of, my kind of Kurt Russell Santa Claus email -
But that was a way to get people to think about it a little bit differently, as opposed to just kind of coming right in with the teaching.
I told a story to get them to understand, you know. What if Kurt Russell had said, Oh, no, I'm not gonna play Santa Claus. And so, maybe you feel like that in your business. And then, I transition it into the teaching that I wanted to leave with them. That's in the email.
Stephanie Liu I love that. And because you talk so much about Stories, like in the same way like, I'm all about like, How can this story become a metaphor for someone else? How can I inspire someone else to go ahead and step into the spotlight?
And just like you, I have a swipe file of just stories - random things that like my daughter does, or movies or just things that I hear on the radio, that I'm like, Wow, that really made an impact on me. And I just keep doing it.
You do the same thing? Do you have like just a story file?
Marisa Corcoran Oh, the notes on my phone just continues forever. And for me, I get a lot of it from pop culture. And people say, Well, what if I'm not big into pop culture?
Certainly there are things in your life or in your childhood that you love. So I can think about those things. So even if you don't feel like, Oh, Marisa, I'm not up on all the cool stuff on Netflix. I didn't watch Christmas Chronicles you know…
But I'm sure from your own life or your own childhood you have things that you loved, and those are perfect topics for ways to find stories for emails.
What's a TV show, you know, didn't miss when you were a kid? Who was your first CD?
Stephanie Liu Your first, your first live concert. Oh my gosh. Throw it back.
Yeah, I think anything that you do - even just that - brings back nostalgia, right? That just pulls people back in. So, I love the pop culture reference. Such a great idea.
Marisa Corcoran Yeah, so that's one of my keeping a list of those stories that are either, you know, as it's happening, and something happens to you. We call them in the theater world and the acting role like, slice of life moments.
And so that's what I really want people to start to be aware of as you're out and about, or what or potential slice of life moments that I could swipe and used as a story just to start off an email.
Stephanie Liu Oh my gosh, okay, this is so good.
I know you guys are loving this because I see all the comments on the side over here and someone was just dropping some love bombs. So, thank you, thank you. Thank you so much for that.
I'm going to take a quick break. And I want to tell you guys about this amazing Copy Chat Masterclass series that Marisa has coming. That's going to be happening soon.
Marisa, do you want to go ahead and just kind of like, drop the bomb a little bit? And then, we'll let them know how they could get access to it.
Marisa Corcoran Yes, totally. And Stephanie is one of our experts on the masterclass series. So this is extra special to be talking about this.
So, The Copy Chat brings together 20 plus experts, and each interview gives you one doable tip to create copy that attracts clients, makes money, and creates a massive movement online. And we've done two seasons already, and this is our third season coming up.
It begins February 17. And each day is a different theme. So we'll talk about the marriage of copy and design. We’ll talk all sorts of email tips. We have Social Media Saturday, which is about growing your Facebook group and your Instagram. We have Video Day, which is Stephanie's day.
We have different -
We will talk about, you know, blogs - the blog tools that you need - copy trends in 2020.
There's so many topics. So, wherever you're at in your business or where your needing a copy tip. I know there's an interview there for you. And it's always there. There's so much fun to do. We make it a really, really fun event, too. There's prizes to be won.
It's really fun.
Stephanie Liu I love it. And so, if you guys want to learn more about that, because this is going to be happening next month, go ahead and leave in the comment, ‘copychat,’ as one-word - ‘copychat’, one word. And then, Robosteph, doo doo doo doo doo doo. will go ahead and let you know the details of how you could be a part of that experience.
So, that is amazing. Everyone is loving the slice of life moment.
Marisa Corcoran So, I'm glad. Yeah.
Stephanie Liu I told you, guys! I told you.
Marisa Corcoran
It will transform your emails really well. Stephanie Liu
Absolutely. It does.
And so, when you have these stories, do you ever take them off of your phone put it into like an Evernote or Google Doc, or do you have them like in chapters of like, emotional states? How do you organize a slice of life moment?
Marisa Corcoran I wish. I feel like you just organized it for us. I feel like I am alone. Little bit of that creative, you know, it just comes out of me and I really keep it in the notes. And then, because I'm doing it all day everyday, I kind of know -
But, I will tell my students transfer it over to a Google Doc. And you can categorize them if you want to. But the most important thing is to just start, like we said, out in the field, you know, in life to just make sure you take that moment.
I was in Trader Joe's, I think was two weeks ago now. And Madonna's express yourself was playing. And the guy was asking me, you know, for my license as buying a bottle of wine or whatever, with our groceries…
I was like, hold on one second, because I realized that Madonna's express yourself was a copywriting anthem. I was like, Okay, I need to write an email about Madonna's express yourself.
So, I just really - I always say to everyone, just start there to remind yourself to just start documenting it and then you can, you know, organize it a little bit more as you get used to just documenting it first.
Stephanie Liu Yeah, so good. And shoutout to Precy who said that whenever she infuses a bit of story into, like any of her copy, whether it's an email or even just a social media post, the engagement that she gets back - people relate to it.
So storytelling, you guys, metaphors and all of that, is super duper helpful. Like in my mind, right now, Marisa, I'm still like, holding on to the classic black leather jacket. I’m like - I need to use it somewhere.
Marisa Corcoran Oh, I love that. I love that. And I love the comment you just said because that's what happens. People will engage with you. And now, because you're engaging with them - human-to-human.
Yeah, when you do already, you're in a sales cycle. You're launching something. It's easier for you to get the engagement that you want there because you've already set them up by responding to you in a human-to-human way.
And the other thing I will say is - even if you don't get that engagement right away, people go, well, it's not working. So, I'm gonna throw this out the window.
And, it's actually not true. Because when I did my last launch of the Copy Confidence Society, I hopped on the phone with the people that wanted to potentially join. One of the questions, I always ask them as I say, What makes you think that Marisa could help you be the person that could create this uncopyable message?
Because I want to make sure that, you know, we're truly a good - a good fit.
And all of them said to me, Well, I read your emails, I never miss an email. But when I saw their names come through to book a call, I remember saying to my team, Wow, these aren't the people that always show up to my lives.
I haven't really seen these names engage back in email, and I was excited to speak to them because I had engaged with them, but they said, I read your emails all the time.
So it works. Even if you don't think - even if you're not getting those responses. It's working for you. Don't abandon it.
Stephanie Liu I absolutely love that because the same thing happens even with live streaming, right?
Like do you guys know that whenever - Okay, this is a hidden live streaming tip.
When Marisa is on the screen, I am looking at your comments, right? And so, I usually have an idea that like Chad's here, Anna’s here, you know, Don's here -
And I know that because their names pop up, and they become top-of-mind for me every time I do a show, but sometimes I'll have that person that reaches out, right in Facebook Messenger, although they'll send me an email.
They're like, I watch your show all the time. Like, I haven't seen your name before, right?
And that's okay. Because some people, you know, they're really shy. They don't want to engage in public because they haven't met like the whole entire Lights Camera Live Crew yet. And I get that. But people are listening to your message.
And when you, take the time to tell those stories to really connect, to know what your desired outcome is going to be. Then you get all that magic stuff, then you get you know. It's like having Marisa in your pocket.
It's like, What would Marisa do? Dub dub, MD? What would you? What would she say?
Marisa Corcoran I love that. I'm gonna steal that. Dub dub MD.
Stephanie Liu Yeah, that'll be like, your little thought thing. You'll be a picture of you like, dub dub MD. Yep. How would I make this much more clickable?
Absolutely love it. All right. So again, if you guys are interested in learning more about the Copy Chat Masterclass Series that is happening next month, do what Don did.
They left the comment ‘copychat’ - one word into the comments, and RoboSteph will go ahead and give you all of the details.
Marisa Corcoran Yeah, I'm so excited. I love doing The Copy Chat. It's just, I think what's crazy about The Copy Chat is this free masterclass series.
You'll see if you go to The Copy Chat page. To find out more about it, you will see like - check out the testimonials of people who've listened into The Copy Chat, and then gone away and tweaked little things in their copy, have booked clients have gotten higher conversions, have opened up for workshops, and got people to join.
And this is just from listening to the free Copy Chat. So it's like, Wow, this is great.
Always just, it's why I do what I do - because I believe like -
We said in the beginning of our conversation, Stephanie, that copy really is one of those business basic needs you can learn to have fun with it. Do it. It can really pay off for you.
Stephanie Liu Yeah, you know, absolutely, because sometimes, when people are getting started in their business, especially entrepreneurs, they focus on the graphics, the websites and then, when it comes to the copy they're like, Oh my gosh, my brain just checked out. What happened? Where'd you go? Come back.
And so, I feel like when you are confident in all aspects in all areas of your life, when it comes to expressing yourself, all the doors just open up because people are like, Okay, now you know who you are. Now you know what your why is. Right?
Because you're not just here to get my money. Like you're here to actually build a relationship with me.
Marisa Corcoran So true. It's so true.
I saw this, you know - One of my students in the society -
We tweaked her sales page. She already came in with a solid brand - her colors, you know. We just tweaked her message, highlighting more about her and her personal story inside the business, and made sure that was all over in her sales pages - everything.
And when we tweaked her sales page, within 48 hours she made $10,000 from the sales page.
Stephanie Liu No way!
Marisa Corcoran This is true. This is one of my students from the last run of the society. And it's because we just infused all the things - we've been learning her personality, focusing on the benefits everything to make the page...
Yes, she was, she became the onliest choice…
I heard that a really great copywriter that I love named Hilary Weiss, who's also going to be on the Copy Chat. She said that, and I was like, I love the onliest choice and that's how I feel, you know.
My student in the society became for herself. She became that onliest choice, which is really cool.
Stephanie Liu So smart, so smart.
And you know, you actually you've got a ton of fans in the comments. There's Melissa Morris. Melissa, she says I think dub dub ms all the time. What would Marisa say?
Don't you just love it when your supporters come to the show, and they just love out there?
And that's, you know, and that is pretty much a testament to you on how you build relationships. Because most people, when they're launching courses or online programs, they're like, Here's the modules, go ahead and jump in and do whatever it is that you have to do. Boom, boom, boom, boom, done, right?
But it looks like you're actually cultivating a community and a society around something that most people really struggle with, and you're empowering them. And I love that.
Marisa Corcoran Yeah, I mean, I teach everything live. I think that's why so inside the society, there are no canned - there are no recordings.
I mean, everything that we do is recorded, if you can't make it that day, but I teach everything live. And, I think that's why.
So every group has its own energy, you know, I can tailor it to what that group needs. I can hold back if I need to. I can go, you know -
And so, that's the really awesome part about the Copy Confident Society is because I'd show up live, and I think it's because I come from a theater background - where you're just used to being on stage all the time.
So I get to be on stage all the time and every night, you know, every group gets to be different.
And so, I love that. So, I think that's where the community aspect comes in a lot.
Stephanie Liu I love that. Yeah, that's so beautiful.
And so, shoutout to Mike Allton who joined us and came back. He said - he said, What did I miss?
I'm like, bro, you missed so much.
We talked a lot. We talked about the Copy Chat Masterclass series that's coming up. We've talked about stories, having a swipe file, whether using Evernote or just you know, the app on your phone. We talked about how to organize it, right? The power of organization and when you actually create a community that's supporting people and turning their stepping stones.
So that way, they could go ahead and reach that desired outcome in their business. They're gonna follow you around and they're gonna support you. Just like Marisa is for…
It's brilliant. I love it. I love it. I love it.
All right, cool. So let me go ahead and just show you guys something real quick. Let's see if this works.
There it is, cool. Let me see if I can make this a little bit smaller. And we'll put this over here. Okay, yeah.
Alright, so this is the Copy Chat Masterclass series that we are talking about.
Marisa, how many people did you say you're going to be here? 20 plus experts?
Marisa Corcoran 20 plus. There's 21.
Stephanie Liu
- Okay, cool.
So if you guys want more information about that, right? See that beautiful face right there? That's the one that we're talking to today. If you want to learn more information about that event, it's gonna be kicking off next month.
Go ahead and leave the comment ‘copychat’, one word, just like what Don and Anna just did. copychat, one word. Go ahead and pop back in and tell you all about it.
So cool. Now, now, now. Let's talk about -
What's your bigger vision for Copy Confidence Society?
Marisa Corcoran Oh, I love this question. For me, kind of my bigger vision in general is that, you know, like I said, I have my MFA in Acting from Harvard. And when you go to school, as I'm sure many of us are, I have a pretty significant student loan debt. And it was very important to me to show other women that:
Hey, you can pay off your student loan debt, without relying on your partner, without relying on the federal government, without relying on the debt prison known as the repayment plan, the IVR plan or the different plans.
You can do this by creating wealth in your business and I'm living proof of that, you know. I came from having no idea when I stopped acting. How could I create this? Because I felt like I would have some sort of income ceiling at some point. And so when I decided -
No, I'm not gonna let that be my energy. I'm going to go and create my world. And that's when I created The Copy Chat, and stepped out of being a done-for-you copywriter, and created my community.
I went from having a super small, you know -
I grew my email list from 90 people to 4500 plus in less than nine months. And I went from making $50,000 to making $250,000 in a year. And we're on track this year to do a little over $500,000.
And that's all the wealth that I created in my business. And, if I can do it with an acting degree, you can - you can do this, too. And so, that's my bigger vision is to show women when you create an uncopyable message for yourself, and copy that supports it and you put yourself out there, you can create the wealth - whatever that means to you.
It doesn't need to be, you know -
We always talk about six, seven figures. It doesn't need to be - it needs to be what it is for you. If you have a student loan, you're trying to pay off or something, I want women to feel like you can do this yourself by creating the wealth yourself.
Stephanie Liu Oh the wealth yourself - like the whole rhyming? I’m just like, Girl, you got this nailed down. I absolutely love it. Yeah, I love it. I love it. I love it.
So for those of you that are just tuning in, we've been talking with Marisa Corcoran who is the founder of the Copy Confidence Society. She has an upcoming summit. It's a free masterclass series called The Copy Chat.If you guys want to learn more about that, go ahead and leave the comment ‘copychat’ as one word.
I know that you love everything that we're talking about because, Girl, I'm looking at the emojis, and we're up to like 400 right now. There's 400 likes. There's like a hundred hearts, and there's a lot. There's like the wow - wow emoji.
So, she's definitely dropping those knowledge bombs. And you, guys, I know that you love this and you're gonna want to know more about her.
Okay, so definitely go ahead and leave that comment ‘copychat.’ That way, you could get more of this.
And, I have one last question for you. Because I know as copywriters like -
I write a lot of copy even just for Facebook advertising and the landing pages that I do. Like what are the couple of books that you reference? Like what are your reference books?
Marisa Corcoran Yeah, in terms of strengthening your copy skills -
Okay, so I have an unsexy answer for you. Well, I have a sexy answer, and then, I have an unsexy.
Okay, so the sexy answer is the book is behind me. And it's called Everybody Writes by Ann Handley. And everybody needs to read this book. Ann Handley is - I can't say enough about her.
Let's plug in Handley, too, because I just think she's awesome. And, she has a newsletter she sends out, I think it's every other Sunday, and it's just a masterclass, storytelling, and so many things.
And this book really shows you, how like in your niche or whatever you're doing, how to write in a way very similar to what we've been talking about today. But you know, for further reading, read Everybody Writes by Ann Handley.
I adore her and all her awesome like, pants, she always says what she wears when she speaks. Shoutout to Ann Handley.
And then, I would also say the non-sexy answer. And then, we actually talked about this in the society is actually reading books that don't have anything to do with tips on writing. It’s reading actual books, memoirs, reading memoirs, reading novels, so you can see how storytelling really comes alive, especially reading memoirs.
For example, like Tina Fey's Bossypants, it's you talk about taking slice of life moments and then connecting them. There’s a masterclass in that, so whenever you read a memoir, those things - it's likely sparking what those slice of life moments can be for you.
So instead of reading books that are just all these tips and stuff, I say, go out and read actual novels and memoirs that are going to have so much that you can draw from - to go home.
What's that story like for me? And then, how does that connect back to my niche?
Stephanie Liu I love that. And so - something happened to me.
Marisa Corcoran I still see me.
Stephanie Liu Oh, how interesting. I completely just lost the feed on my end. Let's see what happens.
Marisa Corcoran Oh, we're back. Well, we switched. We switched. That works out, Stephanie. So your favorite books?
Stephanie Liu Oh, you don't? That's actually -
Thank you so much for asking.
So, I have them. I have a couple books on my desk. And I just keep them handy all the time. And, my first one is Hypnotic Writing. So like I said, I'm really into NLP and hypnosis. So a lot of times I'm trying to think of like, what are some magic words and hypnotic language patterns that I could drop into my copy?
Whether it's copy, all that stuff, and this one by Joe Vitale is like one of my favorites. It's how to seduce and persuade your customers with only your words. So this one I always give it to interns that come on board. But this is so-
I'm cracking up at the fact that we just switched!
Marisa Corcoran I know. I like it, though. So Stephanie, that's so great.
Stephanie Liu You do live streaming your group a lot, don't you?
Marisa Corcoran Yeah. So I know all the things that can - I'm ready for anything.
Stephanie Liu Yeah, yeah.
Marisa Corcoran And, I think that's the other thing. The other thing I always say to my students is like, You just - just do it. You'll figure it out as you go.
People are like, so scared. And that's why I love it. So I can't wait for people to hear your interview on The Copy Chat.
Oh, yes. We talk a lot about how to structure lives and feel really comfortable. And I think it's going to be so delicious and good...
Stephanie Liu It’s good. Yeah.
I mean, I always tell people that live streaming is kind of like improv, you just gotta roll with the punches and keep pushing through with it, because there's no reason for you to end the show.
Because it's just another slice of life moment that you can use. And so with that said, Marisa, what is the best way for people to follow you, to get in touch with you.
I know, they’re like, I need to follow her. I need to follow her.
Marisa Corcoran Yeah, me over here.
The best way is, you know, to definitely come on over and listen into The Copy Chat that starts in February. I always say that it's my baby. I always say -
Sorry, I don't have kids right now. But The Copy Chat is my baby, and we make it an event. We do recaps in the Facebook group. There's prizes to be won, and a chance to connect with the speakers.
It really is my goal that you could walk away from that and go and tweak something and make a difference to your copy. It's really important to me that that feels possible with the series. So the series is the best place, and then, The Copy Chat Facebook group. You can find me there.
I'm in there live, twice a week. We answer questions. It's a great place to throw your copy up and get some feedback. It's a really connected crew. So The Copy Chat Facebook group, and my other favorite place to be is on Instagram. I really do love Instagram.
Stephanie Liu You do. Yeah.
Marisa Corcoran I love Instagram and I'm @mtoni.
Stephanie Liu Yeah, I was tagging you all over the place on Instagram. I was like, You all have to be here.
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
So you guys, thank you so much for joining Lights Camera Live. I know that you are going to find a lot of value in following Marisa and being a part of our group, as well as, being a part of the Copy Chat Masterclass series that kicks off next month.
And, if you haven't already, go and leave the comment, ‘copychat’ - one word into the comments and get all of that info.
All right, Marisa. Are there any last words that you want to give to the crew you're up at? Like 500 emoji so far.
Marisa Corcoran Write more. Have more fun.
I know it sounds like - I think people are waiting in their vacuum to create and then they're like, Oh, well when it's perfect, then I'll send it out.
And especially with things like email, you don't know until you send it and see what people are responding to. That's what's so cool about email. So just get out and have fun with it, you know.
And I know we didn't cover all the aspects, but just telling a story, connecting it back to your audience, you're already going to be way ahead of most people. Right, Stephanie?
Just you know, ‘Click Here To Register,’ you're already going to be way ahead and then you can start to layer in.
And we'll talk about this on the Copy Chat. If you listen in subject lines, and the power of the PS and different ways to transition that feels a little bit more comfortable. So, you start there.
And then, I'm listening to the Copy Chat and we'll help you take it a few steps further as well.
Love it and the PS, I'm telling you guys, when she first reached out to me, I forwarded that email. Like, I took a screenshot and I sent it to the current -
I was like, This was like the best pitch that I had ever received. I know she wants me to be on her on her series, but I want to have her on like Lights Camera Live- I love it.
Marisa Corcoran And yeah, sure. it's true. In the last Copy Chat, I thought my interview - in Copy Chat because surprise! I'm one of the experts as well. I talked about my pitch structure, the pitch email structure because I've had other people say, Hey, I don't usually say yes to summits and to share with my audience, but I had to say yes to you.
And, I had a speaker in the first Copy Chat move their content calendar around to be on the Copy Chat because of the email that I sent her - the pitch email. And that's all the power of just being a human.
And then, the PS, I think I told you all that. I wanted your skincare tips because I always use the PS as a way to be a human, right? And, that's something that I noticed about you.
I was like, I want your skincare, like what are your makeup tips? Like how do you look like this?
So I said whether or not you want to be on The Copy Chat, what are your secrets?
Stephanie Liu Yeah, okay, that's it. I remember.
And then just the way it made me feel after reading it. I may have spilled my coffee on myself this morning. The little one didn't want to wear pants today, but this PS? The highlight of my day.
Marisa Corcoran Yeah, we want to be - and I won. I always want people to make it sincere, right? But that was sincere to me. I'm like a skincare freak. So I was like, I want to look like Stephanie.
When I saw you on Mary Fein Brandt, I was like, Wait a second. I want to know her tips. And I want her skincare.
So it's like finding that human and the PS is an awesome way if you're pitching to somebody to have that human moment.
Stephanie Liu You should have some type of quiz where it's called finding the human. And then, it'll be like this. It'd be like a headline quiz and like, which one sounds more human? And then, they get a score. They get a score that says, like, you're like, 20% robot.
Marisa Corcoran Yeah. I think you just created my quiz for me. Yeah, I'm gonna have to come back and listen to this myself, and with my team to be like, We're gonna do what Stephanie said.
Stephanie Liu Yeah. And for those of you that are watching, if you loved everything today, as always, I will go ahead and put together a blog recap with details for the Copy Chat Masterclass series, and we'll go from there.
But, Marisa, I could talk to you all day, but I know that we've got things to do and you guys have things to do, such as leaving the comment ‘copychat’ every detail, but we'll leave it at that.
We'll go ahead and say bye for now. Marisa, thank you so much. You were absolutely amazing.
You guys, give it up for her. Give her some love.
Marisa Corcoran Thank you for having me here. I love, I love, I love talking to you, Stephanie. This has been so great.
Stephanie Liu All right, you guys. Thank you so much and Happy Thursday. Enjoy the rest of your week.
Bye, everyone. Bye!
ABOUT THIS EPISODE
Is your copy lifeless, dull, and unappealing?
What if I tell you that you could sprinkle a bit of magic to -
Make your words come alive?
Attract the right people to your business?
And persuade your audiences to act?
Discover how you can captivate your audiences using only the power of stories.
Today’s episode is extra special, as the founder of the Copy Confident Society, Marisa Corcoran, joins us in Lights, Camera, Live to help you with what to say and how to say your words to magnetically attract your dream buyers.
If you’re tired of wrangling to find the right words to win over audiences, then you’ll find inspiration in this interview.
IN THIS EPISODE, YOU’LL LEARN
Why Every Business Owner Needs to Master Copywriting
Brilliant Copy Tips and Tricks for Click-Worthy Emails
How to Sell through Storytelling
ABOUT Marisa Corcoran
Marisa Corcoran helps coaches and creatives discover what to say and how to say it to magnetically attract their dream clients online.
In addition to writing the words that get landing pages converting at 60% (or higher!) and crafting personality-filled emails, Marisa helps coaches and creatives craft their uncopyable message inside her 6 month mastermind, The Copy Confidence Society.
She’s also the creator of the wildly popular Copy Chat Masterclass Series which brings together 20+ leading copywriters, business coaches and online strategists to give you one doable tip to craft kick-ass copy that attracts clients, makes money and creates a massive movement online.
When not click-clacking on her laptop in the Atlanta sun, you can find this Harvard grad analyzing a Real Housewives episode like it’s government policy and consuming inappropriate amounts of Nutrageous bars.
Tell us how you fell in love with copywriting.
With an MFA in Acting from Harvard University, Marisa originally started as an actor.
She recalled the times when she, together with her friends, had to perform monologues and scenes for agents to get a job.
To land a gig, not only does an actor need to perform well, he or she should be able to build rapport with agents, too. Did you know that it's customary for an actor to send a nice 'thank you' note after every meeting? In fact Marisa helped many of her friends draft a perfectly polished note that helped them land a job.
In order to get responses from the thank you notes she carefully crafted, Marisa would always stop and ask the following questions:
How can you write this and treat that person as a human?
What else did you talk that had nothing to do with acting?
Was there a funny joke that you told that made them laugh?
How can you make a personal connection?
Marisa’s methods got so many great responses from agents that she eventually realized - she could work for the online world as a writer, and that’s exactly what she did!
When Marisa landed her first writing gig, her client asked her to write a Joint Venture (JV) Packet. She didn't know what it was at first but continued working on it anyway.
Marisa realized that she loved helping people write connected, personality-driven copy more than she liked being an actor. As a result, she ditched acting and began building her business as a Copy Expert and a Copy Coach. And, that's how The Copy Chat was born!
Why is it essential for every business owner to master the art of copywriting?
According to Marisa, there are three things that business owners need to address:
Lead generation, which is about tapping into ideal clients, readers, and fans, and finding a system that consistently works in attracting them.
Sales, which is about finding a way to speak to these audiences, sell to them, and enroll them in the company's vision without having to sound like a used car salesperson.
Copy, which supports the uncopyable message and should be able to connect the first two basic needs.
Without good copy, there wouldn't be a solid connection between lead generation and sales.
What are your best tips for emails to get responses?
Marisa believes email is an awesome place of intimacy and is powerful when it comes to marketing.
“It’s like inviting people in your living room. There’s an awesome opportunity to host an epic dinner party, where you can share stories and connect.”
Crafting an email for an audience may be daunting at first. But, the wisest thing to do is set clear expectations and goals. Focus on what you want to achieve.
Marisa encouraged everyone to answer these questions before crafting an email::
What is my intention here?
What is the goal?
What is my desired outcome?
What do I want them to do at the end of this?
Is it to click over to a blog?
Is it to respond? Engage?
Is it to come over and watch live?
She grabs this opportunity to connect to her audiences by telling them stories through her emails. Stories, according to Marisa, could get you to the point, without just diving in. Also, she strongly thinks that you should not only think about marketing but also put on your creative hat when crafting emails.
She says, "Storytelling is the oldest form of communication. The message is ingrained in people to remember something if a story's attached to it. People will engage with you. You're in a sales cycle. You're already launching something."
Storytelling opens a new opportunity for the writer to cultivate a community around something that people struggle with. And Marisa believes that with stories and email, your business can empower the people within your community.
She also added that with email, you might not get the results you want right away. However, even if you're not getting responses from your audience, don't stop because chances are - people ARE paying attention to what you are saying.
What if I can't reference pop culture in my stories?
Stories in emails don't have to be references to pop culture. Anything goes, as long as it helps you get to the point, without just diving in.
Marisa suggests looking into the things that happened in your life or your childhood for a start. She said that these are perfect topics for you to find stories in emails.
To make it easy for her to craft stories for her emails, she regularly collects story prompts and stores them on her phone. She pulls them up whenever she needs the inspiration to write a story. She calls these stories, “Slice of Life” moments.
“My bigger vision is to show women how to create an uncopyable message for yourself and copy that supports it. Put yourself out there by creating the wealth yourself”
What is your bigger vision for the Copy Confidence Society?
Marisa thinks that The Copy Confidence Society will make her a part of something bigger than herself. She created wealth with her business - without relying on others to get her to where she is now, and she wants to inspire women to do the same.
"My bigger vision is to show women how to create an uncopyable message for yourself and copy that supports it. Put yourself out there by creating the wealth yourself," says Marisa.
She recalled how student debts were making her life difficult, but she overcame the challenges by creating her world and nurturing her community. From an email list of 90 people, she grew it to more than 4500 in almost nine months. From making $50,000 a year, she had gone beyond the $250,000 mark. She is expecting to go a little over $500,000 this year, too.
"And, if I can do it with an acting degree, you can do this, too," she said.
What are your favorite reference books for writing copy?
Marisa loves the book entitled Everybody Writes by Ann Handley. She added that it's a handy reference book, and its tips are suitable for writing copy.
She also recommends writers regularly read books that don't have anything to do with writing. Examples of which are memoirs and novels, wherein storytelling comes alive. Bossypants, written by Tina Fey, is an excellent read to spark those slice of life moments.
What is the best way for people to follow you, to get in touch with you?
Marisa invites everyone to listen to The Copy Chat Masterclass that starts in February. She fondly calls it her 'baby.' As a bonus, her The Copy Chat Facebook group regularly publishes recaps. There are also prizes to be won, and a chance to connect with the speakers.
Plus, The Copy Chat Facebook Group is where you can find Marisa livestreaming at least twice a week, to answer questions and provide copy feedback to members
You can also find her on Instagram at @mtoni.
Any last words you want to give to the Lights, Camera, Live crew?
"Write more. Have more fun," Marisa said. She added that with email, you wouldn't know what will happen until you send it. That's the only time you will see which messages people are responding to. So, just get out and have fun.
About The Copy Chat Masterclass: It's About Time For You To Make A Difference
Marisa Corcoran's primary goal is to help writers, like you, know what needs to be done with copy messages so that you could go away and make a difference. She firmly believes that bringing together 20+ experts to speak about creating compelling copies will make her goal possible.
The Copy Chat Masterclass, which starts on February 17, 2020, is in its third season. Some things that will be discussed include the marriage of copy and design, some email tips, social media copy, growing Facebook groups and Instagram, some blog tools and copy trends, and so much more.
Marisa assures you that everything you need to know on how to transform your emails to attract more clients and make more money will be thoroughly discussed in The Copy Chat Masterclass. One doable copy tip will be revealed in each interview as well.
The previous installments of masterclass series gained astonishing testimonials. With the little tweaks that the earlier students did, they booked more clients and achieved higher conversion rates.
One student, who tweaked her sales page according to what she learned from The Copy Chat Masterclass, made $10,000 within 48 hours.
Get more behind-the-scenes tips by joining the Social Media Strategist Group!
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